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Chat Culture
Wrathe 6:41pm, January 12, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	Are chatters their own culture? Would a new comer to a chat -fit in? Would they know how to work the room? Understand what is was all about? What do you think?
I don't think.
JekNado 7:20pm, January 12, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	Chatters come from a mix of countries, cliques, and ideals. We just share a common intrest.
Culture
Jezral 8:04pm, January 12, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I definetly believe there is a certain cultural sense to it, because that's how the world is. We are all in cultural groups of some sort, whether it is a country, street, or a chat. And sometimes outsiders have a hard time fitting in, leading to them either secluding themselves, or being shunned by the established members of that group. It's nothing new...been like that for centuries. Best observed in schoolyard cliques. Of course it's bad, and of course some of us want to make everyone get along...to make the ugly kid play with the others, so to say. It has never worked. And enforcing a "play nice" environment is not good, because then everyone is miserable, and the enforcers become the hated oppressor. True, this unites the people in a way, namely the way to rebellion. The only way to make everyone as happy as possible, is to let them not get along...but we must speak our mind and try to convince them to get along. Just never force them. Forcing won't work. -- Tino Didriksen / Project JJ
more to the point
Wrathe 8:09pm, January 12, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	An example: to stay on topic. People in a UNI, come from all over. Major purpose is to get an education. People mix and new cliques are formed. People are accepted and a new cycle takes place. Here in this chat system PJJ. Would that cycle be allowed? Or are they closed to the chat masters guidelines. Will a new person be allowed to RP in starnet-and not be ignored? Can someone go OOC in the other chats and chat? Looking at some chat masters (No one in particular) Is that allowed? Is there acceptance into a clique. Try to stay on the above topic. This point is being made out of consideration for those that feel left out of the "circle." Let's just NOT start that thread here.
...
AceOOC 11:11pm, January 12, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I've noticed a different culture in the Cantina (I don't have much experience w/ other chats) than in real life. We seem to have a different sense of humor (mostly based around bitching at one another), and just the general way we interact with one another seems to be different. Maybe this is because even though we all come from different social backgrounds, we meet in this one spot anonymously (more or less), and so we don't have to be quite as cautious as we might have to be in real life. Here endeth Ace's philosophical tirade.
I think so
Gerald Tarrant 4:46am, January 13, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I started about two months ago. one of the first things i noticed is that if you have an active imagination things will run smoothly even for a newcomer. yes people who rp make their own culture, mostly it depends on whether or not the person really immerses themselves when they rp. Some people have a culture all to themselves, and some adopt others
Yes and No....
Brother Cain 7:59am, January 13, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I don't really go into RP rooms, but the rooms I go into there is most definetly a chat hierarchy. New comers don't get the chat etiquete and will be shunned by the regs. Much like any other cliques, some find it easier to fit in. But common interests don't exactly make for fast friends. There are simple unspoken rules that once broken are hard to mend. In a Manson chat (Many moons ago) it was strictly forboden to speak said artists name without horrible repercussions. All in all, the hierarchy of a chat is quite pathetic and need to accept new comers based on the merrit system, not how long they've been chatting. All in all, we were all newbies at one time. ~End Transmission~
There is indeed a seperate chat culture.
Buzz 9:35pm, January 13, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I've noticed that in the Cross Franchise cantina, at least, there is a definate clique atmosphere among chatters. This is particularly evident among those who are considered "regs" or "vets". These two groups tend to be rather stereotypical when it comes to newbies. I, myself, can be extremely intolerant of newcomers (particularly those who don't like to at least type like they have some idea of what the english language looks like). However, I belive, acceptance can be attained rather quickly if the newcomer is of the right mindset, and makes an active effort to get involved without seeming overly anxious. I think that anyone who was involved with the cantina back when I first joined can vouch for me when I say that I fell in with the people in the cantina almost immeaditely. It also helps if the newbie is already an experienced RPer from elsewhere. ("Pencil and paper" veterans seem to make the transition better than those whose experience lays primarily in online freeform).
My thoughts
Scott Summers 9:51am, January 14, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	While chatting is it's own subculture..even has it's own language, if you really wanna look at it..It's still a very barbaric culture as a whole. You have people who can't take constructive criticism, those who like to just walk around screwing everything up..and you have your aforementioned cliques. The cliques are the worst. If you aren't a reg, you're 95% screwed unless you get lucky and find a welcoming reg. Then you have maybe a 25% shot at being welcomed. And after that, you have some big shoes..unknown as to who they belonged to first, to fill. All because you're the low man on the totem pole. You get things blamed on you, you get the flack from the regs..all in a attempt to be welcomed in and play happily until they find something else to pick on you for. Is it worth it? Most times I really don't think so. It reminds me sickeningly of schools growing up. Particularly junior high and high school. And we shouldn't have to deal with that at all. The lot of us were probably picked on in high school, why would we want to come here and deal with it? I sure as hell wouldn't. It's why I only play in 2 rooms. I'm not gonna subject myself to it. But that's just my two cents. -Scott Summers
...
Buzz 8:38pm, January 14, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	It makes sense that it reminds you of high school, scott, since a good portion of the chatters here are still in highschool (Or just never stopped thinking like they did in high school).
Very true, Buzz
Scott Summers 9:26pm, January 14, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	As my subject header says...very true. It's like since they are picked on in school, they feel the need to pick on others behind the veil of anonimity and facelessness since they don't have to take a blow to the head or something. But like their tormentors before them..they don't stop to see that the newbies they pick on have feelings themselves.

ShadeFell 9:51pm, January 14, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I think it depends entirely on the chat, and the chatters. There's been a lot of chats, both RP and non RP that I've been able to jump into and have fun with... adn there's been chats both RP and non RP that I haven't been welcome in... even though I knew a lot of people in there and had been invited in. So part of it is the people who make up the chat. If they are welcoming, it's easier for people to get involved. However, part of it is also the people coming into the chat. Every chat has certain etiquite, from "this is a role play room, please don't ask people to really make you a vampire" to "please don't type all in caps and shout nazi propaganda" to "don't post links to goatse.cx" to whatever. When you enter a new room, look around and see what the atmosphere of the room is. If you want to chat up a 15 year old honey, don't head into a chat dedicated to autmobile maintanence. If you want to role play, don't go into a non roleplay room. Stuff like that. And there are also hierarchies, of course. But once you get the hang of the hierarchy, you can learn how to move within it. In my experience, when people complain about chats, either the chat is self destructing already or else the complainer didn't try to mesh himself with the chat. IE, he expected the chat to change to HIS expectations. A good,healthy chat is open to new people... but won't take much shit, either.
Interesting...
Sam 9:59pm, January 14, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	Hmmm... this is very interesting... cause from what I remember, I never had any problem fitting in and getting lots of friends. I am in grade 10 now and don't get picked on in school much. I welcome newbies when I am on and they need help... but when I am a newbie, it seems all I have to do is ask and someone helps me get the hang of the chat. Why would it be different for other people??

O.R. 12:25am, January 15, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	Heh...hence why I've become a Newbie Trainer. I have a high tolerence level for seemingly empty headed people(newbies). So I just teach them the basics and all...strange job it is indeed... Edited 1:27am, January 15 by O.R., author.
checking in
Wrathe 3:25am, January 15, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	Looking over the posts, I find it all very interesting how some talk about "letting others in" or "teaching the ropes." I do see the newcomers treated very badly, I also see others that have been given the big IGNORE. Even if most chatters are still in High School we still have a mix of adults over the age of 25. Many people that are done with their education or drop outs, and others who try to work. Overall, I see no difference in the age groups when they are chat masters, or chatters. It seems more of plainly -just wanting that sense of "control."
Re: ... [Buzz]
Jason Syders 3:35am, January 15, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	Buzz, I really hate to break this to you. But most people that are out of High School shoundn't have time to be an "active chatter". Once out of High School many people have things to do and can't just sit in front of a computer for many hours a day. One the topic of Chat Culture... I personaly beleive that it would be considered more of a language than a culture. Cultures generaly have many things in common and all come from a specific area. In a language, people all can communicate together and understand what is going on. So I wouldn't consider it a culture, maybe a language, but definately a hobbie. ------ Jason Syders
survival of the fittest
Rikua 5:16am, January 15, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	the topic-line above says it all... can't fit in? you dont belong. Tough luck, and tough love.

Scott Summers 1:15pm, January 15, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	That right there, Rikua is what scares a lot of people off. Comments like that. How do you expect newbies to fit in, when you say shit like that? It's called being tolerant and open minded to new people. Try doing that to someone IRL. You'd get the shit slapped outta you so fast your head would spin. And no that isn't a threat. It's a fact. Regs on here treat newbies like shit because there really isn't any repercussions. But if they tried that IRL? That newbie might be twice your size, and decide to stomp a mudhole in you, then walk it dry, to quote a ex-WWE wrestler. Think about that. Would you really want to have your ass kicked IRL because you did that? I know I sure as hell wouldn't. It's why I'm so willing to meet people kindly IRL. A bit to think about. -Scott

CoCo 2:34pm, January 15, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I think the problems ensue when 'newbies' don't take the time to watch for a few minutes, to check the vibes in the room, especially in role play formats. They often come a'bustin' in, interrupting play, demanding attention, neglecting punctuation and grammar...blah, blah, blah. Then they're miffed when they're ignored. Now, I'm not saying this is always the case, but certainly that sort of behavior incurs a modicum of wrath, and happens frequently. If you're well-spoken, inventive, and respectful, good things happen. And I think those last three qualities apply to OOC chatting as well. And role players, who are in the middle of a storyline, won't stop to pop OOC to welcome a newbie with open arms. Timing is everything in ChatLand. And dorkiness is returned in kind. Heh...dorkiness...see? I'm well-spoken....

ShadeFell 3:22pm, January 15, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I agree with CoCo. Except for cases where you have asshole chats (which generally don't last long, as they self destruct) most of the problems I see are with people who don't take the time to get the vibe of the chat. And this is coming from someone in her 20's who's been a part of and moderated IRC chats, web forums, chat rooms, mailing lists, etc. Is it always the problem of the person coming in? Of course not. But it often is... either the brand new people who don't know what's going on, or the people who've been there just long enough to think they can run things and be dickheads to newcomers, since they aren't newcomers any more. In a well run, healthy chat people like that get slapped down FAST. But when the chat's smaller, it's different. Those of you talking about "survival of the fittest" and not being welcomed, are you mostly going into small chat rooms with a close knit clientelle? Because if so, you're kind of in anomoly land... places like that tend to be a bit incestuous and closed off to outsiders, which is a problem in and of itself... and eventually leads to the destruction of the chat.

Papa Smurf 8:33pm, January 15, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I think I can relate to Sarn the best on the subject of newbies. When I first started here three, four years ago, I wasn't treated horribly just because I was a newbie. Granted, I had already been freeform roleplaying on AOL several years before I came here, but, that's not the point. Just because I was experienced in roleplaying in chatrooms, didn't mean that I wasn't a newbie at Star-Net when I first came about. But, like Sarn did, I got somebody to help me get the feel of things, and I got along with everyone just fine. I honestly don't see why there has to be so many problems with newbies. Help them out, and they won't act like newbies. It's that simple. Unfortunally, there are some acceptions to this, I won't say any names, but there are some people that have been around for years and still act like fools. They still use bad grammmer (which, granted, isn't a bad thing, but you'd think after a few years of this, it would get alittle better), do extremely stupid things IC, and constantly yell, bicker, and just plain out insult Chat Masters when they don't get their way. For these people, ignoring is probably the best option. Meh, but that's completely off the topic on whether or not Chats can be cultures. So, Lemme get back on subject. Yeah, I think chats such as these are little cultures in their own way. Friendships are made here, enemies, relationships, just about everything that can happen in any other culture. The only difference is our culture is made up of hundreds of people that have never seen each other before, and live in different parts of the world. We have cliques here, just like any other culture, and yeah. That's what I think.

Gany 5:18am, January 16, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	actually, last year I almost wrote an Ethnography on us 'Tina-esque Rp folk... but since I was inside of the group that I wanted to prove was a culture, it would've complicated things way too much. So I did one on the culture of mall security instead... I definitely think we're a culture. For sure. :) gany gal

Rikua 4:20am, January 17, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	1) Scott, if someone was gonna -try- to beat me up IRL just cuz i treated them like an ass the first time i seen them, then that person's got some serious issues. Not to mention how i'd either fight back (im not a pathetic lil 7th grader, yo), or run...or other wise defend myself.....but now im falling OT 2) ya guys (who know me ^_^) who posted after Scott, that was mostly what i had in mind when i was writing that first message...the "crap newbies"...the ones that ruin the fun and experiences of the room reg's. Now, if someone can come on in, and play along resonably decently, they're welcome to it! However, i think that if you're gonna go around being a dickhead and trying to be the new BIG guy/gal-you know, the popular one, the rebel, whatever...If you're gonna go around disrupting people for no good reason save your own boredom, well, the prognosis isnt good. Just to comment, i remember when i first came to the old Beseen RP chats...the W-W ones...I was new to the scene and made alot of friends fairly quickly, no one was really nasty towards me, unless i started stirring up shit whistles innocently... Then again, i didnt go around, jumping right into play without knowing what i was doing...i paid decent attention to my grammer and my messages, and i treated my fictional characters as if they were real people that were a part of me-they had their own personalities and i strived hard not to deviate from them....but now im degressing again Point is-theres good newbies nad bad newbies...and that's why i say its survival of the fittest... If you're good enough to deserve to stick around -welcomed-, you're definately fit. But if you can't get your act together in a fair amount of time, you can either leave or be disliked by the majority of the room reg's. And that's why Chat is a culture, a basic one that follows nature's rule of survival. Heh, some of you who know me better are probably saying, "Who's she to talk, she hasn't chatted much in the PJJ rooms in the past month" well they're right, i've been busy...college is like that. Especially with work. Ciao ~Rik Edited 5:21am, January 17 by Rikua, author.
Bungle in the Cyber-Jungle
Snowy 12:13am, January 18, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	it's interesting to me that the subject of 'chat culture' would invigorate such a response that mainly delineates between separate rooms. when i first read the topic, i thought more about the world of chat vs. the world of flesh...what we famously proclaim to be 'rl'. i think about it now and then, the secret culture to which i belong. to which we all belong. it must be human nature to settle ourselves, or in this case, or minds..into these very clannish structures, but the situation as a whole is quite facinating ( to me, anyway ;p ). we have this secret society of whispers. we speak our secret hearts to folk we've never met - we might say things in here that would have taken us a lifetime to admit if we'd allowed ourselves to be run by society at large. during the natural evolution of our time online, i've seen many people point out the 'instant intimacy' of the internet forum, i've cursed it myself. does it denegrate us, to share fast and deep with people who, by the 'RL' scheme of things, we barely even know? does it cheapen the importance of such things, does the flame of what the internet could be burn so brightly and so fast it's fuel is nearly exhausted by our plethora of emotional garbage we sling into our chatrooms and along our IM's? either way, THIS, i feel..is the crux of chat culture. the inner world we all share with each other, whether we dislike or love one another. whether we chat alongside each other, or thru various cyberwalls..if we've never even bumped pixels 'live' at all. we're all in it together, and the rest of them 'arent'. we see things, we see into people far deeper and much faster than our parents ever did, or still do. the questions such quick intimacy raise as to it's depth or validity can make me feel a little ill. we spend so much time here...i really care about my friends, to the point where i'd try to help them IRL if they ever came to serious harm...would they do the same for me? yes, i do spend time pondering this chat culture when i am free from it in my bed at night..but then again, i also think about geo-politics. surely our society in here is helping shape who we are out THERE, even in some small way. just as the machinations of these stupid STUPID politicians grind closer and closer towards pulling all of our worlds, secret whisper and latte crowings..asunder forever. Edited 1:18am, January 18 by Snowy, author.
overview
Wrathe 5:44pm, January 20, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	First off thanks to those that cared to share. Overall, seeing the comments: those that try to be accepted, everyone posted why they "Think" it doesn't work. Instead of trying to be a little more accepting. Perhaps those RL little problems people may suffer...need a little more TLC (tender loving care). No one "really " knows who that person is on the other side. Time without judgement. They come for a reason, and they are shunted away......that doesn't seem too fair nor very wise. You can't like everyone, but everyone comes into the chats for a reason. More patience before disapproval is needed. Survival still doesn't make acceptance. Point being in this chat culture -we don't have guns to fight, leadership to dictate, people to decide who is right and who is wrong. A chat leader may have created the chat, which doesn't make them the lord to dictate and decide who lives and who dies. It's a chat. To many are taking this box serious, freindships, love and all is created. Simply the people you chat to, aren't real enough to be there for you, when you need help- How many of you can share a happy or sad moment with a net pal? Can you be there to hold them, lend money, be with them as they have a sickness or operation. NO.........all you are is text. How many have a lover so far away, that you may meet once or never. Is that love? When you can't even be there for a weekly date or take you to your prom? And you can't even get the money together to visit? You still have to hide the facts from your family. That online person... that you meet is a crackpot, lunatic, murderer. As the news makes the chat culture to be. So many miss the point-, dreams of false hope,that's what you find. All other comments are still welcome.

Papa Smurf 4:28am, January 21, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I'm going to have to disagree with you. People can fall in love with personalties, you know. Even if two people have never seen each other before, but can share everything to one another and have common interests, ect, I do think it's possible for them to fall in love. No, I know it's possible, because I've done it. I fell in love with Dessy before I met her, and when I did meet her, it only confirmed what I already knew. I loved her. Never seen her before. Only talked to her online and on the phone. And I fell in love with her. 2 and half years later, I still love her. We may not be together anymore because my own foolish/childish/selfish ways, but I still pine over her every second of every day. And if that isn't love, what is? The point is, people can fall in love and stay in love, even if they can't have that weekly date or go to the prom together, because in truth, when you're in love, it goes far beyond that. Just goes to show that maybe you haven't experienced it yet. Furthermore, friendships are also made. The people I've met through the internet are at times, much closer than my actual friends. Yes, we share happy moments. Yes, we share sad moments. And while we may not be able to be there to hold them or be by their side when they're sick, it doesn't make us any less real to each other. Because, to simply put, even though all we is text, they person on the side is REAL. And that's all I have to say. Edited 5:33am, January 21 by Papa Smurf, author.

Rob 12:52pm, January 21, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I'm going to have to disagree with you. People can fall in love with personalties, you know. Even if two people have never seen each other before, but can share everything to one another and have common interests, ect, I do think it's possible for them to fall in love. No, I know it's possible, because I've done it. I fell in love with Dessy before I met her, and when I did meet her, it only confirmed what I already knew. I loved her. Never seen her before. Only talked to her online and on the phone. And I fell in love with her. 2 and half years later, I still love her. We may not be together anymore because my own foolish/childish/selfish ways, but I still pine over her every second of every day. And if that isn't love, what is? The point is, people can fall in love and stay in love, even if they can't have that weekly date or go to the prom together, because in truth, when you're in love, it goes far beyond that. Just goes to show that maybe you haven't experienced it yet. Furthermore, friendships are also made. The people I've met through the internet are at times, much closer than my actual friends. Yes, we share happy moments. Yes, we share sad moments. And while we may not be able to be there to hold them or be by their side when they're sick, it doesn't make us any less real to each other. Because, to simply put, even though all we is text, they person on the side is REAL. And that's all I have to say. Amen Isamu, amen. Edited 9:55pm, January 21 by Rob, author.

Papa Smurf 8:45pm, January 21, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	pats Rob I'm not Ian, I'm Isamu.

Rob 8:56pm, January 21, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	Patted..I knew that.Shifty eyesI was trying to throw everyone else off.
a good example -but a sorry story
Wrathe 10:15pm, February 03, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/56497p-52905c.html the logs: http://www.ripperlogs.tk/ these are graphic and do show the suicide which occured in IRC. Now how could any of you "IN BOX chatters " help? I do feel that someone should have made sure help was on the way. Some people tried to make contact with police, and his cell. Many people make friends online, but when it comes down to the reality of it all, they are people too far away that really can't help.

Rob 1:18am, February 04, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I hardly think that's a fair example. I'm not saying he deserved what he got, but if you're going to do stupid things like try to overdose on purpose, either offline or on, fate will get the better of you. In the end, this is something that he would have do, on or off line, the fact that he did it while chatting, in my opinion, is irrelivant.

Papa Smurf 4:30pm, February 04, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	I agree with Rob. Someone like that, in my opinion, was desperate for attention, hence why he did it online. People can help. There's been plenty of times that I've needed help, being I needed someone to talk to, or someone to be there for me, and my online friends have came through for me. Hell, I condsider Okami a sister because she's helped me so much.
same
Victor Von Flagg 10:13am, December 24, 2003 [Edit] [Delete]	Probably not.
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