Thread for Star Vs. Star Trek: A Step by Step Analysis Index | New Thread | Reply | Close | Stick | Delete  Star Vs. Star Trek: A Step by Step Analysis Anonymous 12:17am, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Star Vs. Star Trek: A Step by Step Analysis When it comes down to science fiction two very similar names jump out at each other, Star Wars, and Star Trek. When comparing these two things people fail to take in the complexity of the difference, and most often, those comparing them are only experienced in one or the other. In addition, they do not typically understand the technical aspects gone into each series. Star Wars is an epic movie of the struggle between good and evil. Applicable to everything about life, it is not just a movie, it is a story and an experience all its own, brought to life by an incredible cast of no-name actors made big only by these movies themselves. The movies revolve around one set of fixed characters, and focus mostly on an underlying plot. Star Trek is instead a television series (or several actually) that has more then one cast, and more then one plot. It focuses mainly on entertainment and has no underlying plot to tie all the different sets of characters together. The new novels released in the Star Wars series have an underlying plot line that ties them all together . Also, with the books and Games, Star Wars “extras” are all produced and authorized by one company, Lucas Arts, showing a centrally controlled galaxy in which all the different pieces of the puzzle interlock and agree with each other. Star Trek is all freelance, with ten or twelve things produced simultaneously that aren’t connected in any way. In the span of perhaps eight books, we have already seen the death of three or four main characters. This also shows a shift from the traditional “the heroes save the day” plot common to old Star Wars and Star Trek books (and the Star Trek Television series) to something new and something far grander. Now the Star Wars novels show everyone as a hero, they show everyone helping, and they show everyone suffering from loss and despair. To understand each series one has to completely experience it and understand it, something impossible for die-hard fans of one or the other. This is where people who attempt to argue that one is better fail, they know nothing about the alternate topic. Having watched three seasons of Star Trek, all the movies, and seen the movies, read the books, admired the comics, and played the games, for Star Wars, I am perhaps better versed in each topic then anyone needs to be. In addition, people only assume I am a die-hard fan of one or the other. This is a label placed upon me, not one I claim for myself. The technical aspects of Star Trek are laughable when compared to the effort put into the Star Wars films. Star Wars re-invented special effects in Hollywood. Nothing else needs to be said regarding the technical aspects. If Star Trek is so much better, why did it not do that first? Blue screen formatting, the technique used with the Star Wars models (All the way back in 1972) allows a level of precise detail and clarity. The latest Star Trek television shows (and only the latest) have begun to include computer-generated images, a film technique developed by a company called Industrial Light and Magic (a division of LucasFilm). There is a report by an ILM employee that while he was working on Star Trek: First Contact he had the CGI for the Mellinium Falcon on his computer. So he inserted two of them fighting into the battle against the Borg Cube at the beginning of the movie. Star Trek films rely on another film company as well, THX, to produce movie quality sound for their videos. Not only is THX also a division of LucasFilm the first movie made by George Lucas was a film called THX 1138. Whenever a Star Trek movie or series supports THX the sound company, they are paying homage to its creator, George Lucas. They are obviously acknowledging his superiority. Movie theatres that display Star Trek films are only capable of doing so because of THX Sound Systems, too. On top of that, both ILM and Skywalker Sound are constantly performing jobs for Gene Roddenberry on the Star Trek films. If Star Trek is so great, why again does it rely on LucasFilm to produce movies of quality? Star Wars, instead of using existing companies saw fit to create new ones (ILM and THX and Skywalker Sound) to fit the grander scheme for the Star Wars movies. There are three different ways to compare Star Wars and Star Trek. The first is on their plot/entertainment. While Star Trek may be more entertaining, that is all it is. Star Wars leaves you wondering, wanting more, and having learned something. Star Trek leaves you knowing that in a week for another half hour you can watch what is basically the same plot all over again, to see the same people save the day again. The second is in overall knowledge. Most people make the mistake of looking at the movies and saying, “Look! You only see like three planets!” That is much the same thing as watching one Star Trek Episode and saying “Look! You only see one ship!” Until you take into account the books and novels and comics, you cannot begin to understand either topic. The Star Wars Universe is more diverse and connected then the Star Trek one, a fact that is not in evidence in the films. Evidence also shows that there are three books, comics, or computer games for every one book written about Star Trek (most of the books also follow the television series). The last category is in the technical aspects of the film. Star Wars turned Hollywood’s head around with its special effects, music, and computer generated characters. Star Trek soon used these to increase it’s own fame, at the same time lining George Lucas’s pockets because they were forced to use his companies to do it. Star Trek’s dependency on LucasFilm companies demonstrates its natural inferiority. Obviously Star Trek could not exist and be successful today if not for Star Wars pioneering the way forward. In every overall category, Star Wars has proven better. With stronger Hero’s, a centrally geared plot, more knowledge and information, and better technical skills, the only possible conclusion here is that overall the Star Wars films compare and beat out everything ever produced of Star Trek. [edit by Jezral: Paragraph formatting, no wording altered.] Edited 11:50am, April 18 by Jezral, moderative.  ...huh? Jezral 10:02am, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] No idea who posted it, but it´s good to see an article (as this would classify as). Could use a quick run-over with spell/grammar check... Comments: Star Trek didn´t have the success of Star Wars to begin with, so they didn´t have the capital to create divisions such as ILM and THX, but why re-invent the wheel afterwards? Much easier, and cheaper, to just buy it from LucasArts. That way it´s ensured quality, better than they could have produced in some makeshift CGI studio. -- Tino Didriksen Project JJ  commentary Lady Karen Of PMSness 2:43pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] This is probably the most accurate and sensible commentary I´ve seen in SW vs. ST. Keep up the good work!!  Except no...... J The Voice Of Reason 5:41pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] I disagree.......but my mind´s block, reason can´t come in, I´m lost. I think my argument centered around not comparing them at all cause they´re two different kinds of sagas. Oh and as for inferiority......well I don´t think that´s true, consider this that many cantina aliens for Ep IV was created from Original Star Trek Aliens or at least the ideas were used. And I don´t see how using ILM makes Star Trek inferior. So they want good special effects, that´s not so bad. But the latest movie Star Trek: Insurrection and many CGI scenes for Voyager and DS9 were not done by ILM or anything from Lucasfilm and the ships turned out fine. That´s pretty much it. I like both franchises anyways so I won´t argue about it too much.  I disagree (surprise) Stoneneedle 6:27pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Yes, while Star Trek does primarily have an entertainment value, I still say that there are very important concepts that Star Wars just doesn´t have. In SW, unless you go to the books, it´s about a ragtag bunch of Rebels taking on a superior force and beating out against incredible odds. Or, before and after, it´s about a stable government(or relatively so) trying to combat all of the evils of both external conflicts and internal, corrupt politicians, etc. I think it´s important that every so often we take the time to look at a plot chock full of glistening starships and technologies (which, I think the individual systems themselves are explained better than in SW) to not only entertain but bring to people in a way they can understand those scientific theories that people would just otherwise not even hear of. Even if the theory is outdated, has been disproven, or is simply not practical we still see that it´s important to at least be familiar with. Then there are the moral and ethical implications the Star Trek characters have to deal with. Towards the beginning of most Star Trek episodes the problem strikes, the situation is only about half-stabilized, and then the proper solution is debated amongst the crew or other supporting characters. In the end, the solution either totally resolves the conflict, leaves open ends for another episode, or leaves the crew and the viewer with a sense of loss or disappointment. It´s far deeper than simply "saving the day", and thus Star Trek has a better quality in the plots that it makes up. Some of the best writers work on Star Trek and I think that where it gets its technology from is irrelevant-you can make the case that while ST stole tech, SW "borrowed" ideas. But back to the point. I think that the saviors of Star Trek have to face far more complex problems and these decisions must weigh more heavily on them than in Star Wars(as a general rule, there are exceptions). Now I´ve only seen a handful of the movies and most of VGR, some of TNG, and bits and pieces of DS9 - so mind you, my knowledge isn´t extensive enough to talk about how interconnected the plot is-I´ve heard that in one book a main character will die that is obviously in the series in ST. But as Star Wars pushes forward I think we´re starting to see inconsistencies in the plot as well, hard as the authors try to keep it all in line(I´m not updated on the details of that). Well geez, Stoney, can you get to the point? Alright, alright. I say that you can´t say that SW beats out ST based upon the technology (and when I´m referring to technology I´m talking about THX and those things ST has borrowed from...let´s not get into another debate of if metaphasic armor can disrupt a proton torpedo ;) ), and that the characters of ST while they may be always alternating (there are a lot of different SW chars too) they still have some better qualities than those in SW. Therefore, ST beats out SW in some areas and SW is superior in others-I´m just talking primarily about ST because if not I, then who will rush to its defense? And the two deal with too many different issues to compare by saying that one "rocks and totally beats out the other." It´s more open to interpretation, ST has better scientific value and makes you think more than SW. SW has better fights. But SW simply doesn´t beat ST out on "every overall category". -Live long and prosper   N 7:24pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] I think so far we´re all ignoring what a cool series Babylon 5 was. Even V uses ideas from the Shadows and the most notable feature would be people actually replacing power cells for their weapons during battle O_o..... and the Vorlons rule you all! I´m better now, really... N  The shit shall hit the fan.... JekNado 8:26pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Just wait until Zon reads this.....   Anonymous 9:09pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Well let me just state that I am in no way trying to hide my name from any of YOU. You all hate me already anyway. =) I´m just protecting myself from my GirlFriend...if she stumbled across this well...let´s just say it wouldn´t be pretty. But I wrote it. *smirk* And I´m proud of it.   Rihani Ambrai 9:13pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Stoneneedle - I will agree that Trek´s technology is far better fleshed out, and at least tries to remain within the realm of scientific possibility. Of course, you will see the impossible on the show, but the plot has to go forward somehow. And our views in science are fairly prehistoric compared to what is happening in the world of Star Trek. Wouldn´t you agree that, in 300 years time, the science of physics would have altered significantly? Edited 11:27pm, April 18 by Rihani Ambrai, author.   Rihani Ambrai 9:19pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] "Star Trek films rely on another film company as well, THX, to produce movie quality sound for their videos. Not only is THX also a division of LucasFilm the first movie made by George Lucas was a film called THX 1138. Whenever a Star Trek movie or series supports THX the sound company, they are paying homage to its creator, George Lucas. They are obviously acknowledging his superiority" Err... they never actually tried to do their own special effects. They´re not interested in beating George Lucas at what they started - they´re simply hiring a special effects house to the the effects for them. In the original series they did have their own special effects, but that´s only because there was no special effects houses back then. Look - the two can´t be compared. Both are very different - Star Wars appeals to our adventurous nature, hence has far more mass appeal than Star Trek ever could. Star Trek is fun in imagining a world in our future where technology reigns supreme - rather like our own today! It´s fun to imagine what can happen with that technology. Of course, Star Trek wouldn´t be Star Trek without a good story - story will always triumph over technology. To cut it short, don´t try to compare, because you can´t. If you don´t like one, then don´t go shooting your mouth off just because someone else does. If people like to dress up as Klingons and try to learn the language - so what? Star Wars fans dress up as their heroes and would love the chance to be able to have their own lightsaber. As Trek fans would love to be able to sit in the captain´s chair on the Enterprise. That´s all I have to say for now.  Prove what? Stoneneedle 9:23pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] I was making supportive evidence to say that SW does not beat out ST in every capacity. Anonymous did not start a debate about SW technology v.s. ST technology - did you even read my post?   Rihani Ambrai 9:35pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Er, yes...  Well... Stoneneedle 9:46pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] When I mean "more advanced in science" I´m saying that ST, as a series, talks more about the scientific advances made by its various civilizations...it doesn´t so much focus on the actual fighting it out with the technologies as SW does, nor are all the technologies for war. I didn´t mean "more advanced in science" as in, an ST ship could blow away a SW fighter or vice versa. In that sense, you´re right, we´ll never truly know and it´s pointless to compare. Sorry for the miscommunication.   Rihani Ambrai 9:55pm, April 18, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] S´ok, hehe  I, am the aformentioned ´´Zon´´... FALCON_X-0N_ 1:51am, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] ...and I gotta admit, I got caught napping. Literally, I just woke up and whoop, look at this. So, the Trekkie King is gonna get back in practice and try to stave off some of this negative stereotyping on Star Trek. Since my area of expertise has always been what would beat what in a fight (having earned the above title in a role playing chatroom of this very nature, this shouldn´t be that surprising), I´m slightly glad I´ll get to spread my wings a little and think about this rather than quoting 12 textbooks. So... First off, "Star Trek is nothing but ´Random Day Save-age´." What? Okay, I´ll be the first to admit as a well-rounded Trekkie, that Voyager, at the most, was plagued by this. But for every 200 Best of Both Worlds clones, you´d get at least one gem. For the latter half of Deep Space Nine, the hero´s more or less lost: in the war(Massive losses on Starfleet´s side), their life(loss of Jadzia, Nog´s leg), and loss of some of the very ethics that Trek is based on(Section 31´s own being; Sisko´s own admission that he can "live with" his manouvering of the Romulan´s into the War). Of course, in the end, the Federation did win the war. So lets move onto Star Trek: The Next Generation. This too, like Voyager, had a number of "technobabble saves the day!" episodes, but their greatest episodes are never on this contrived theorum; instead they give birth to new interpretations of it. For instance, take the episode "The Inner Light." I´m going to analyze this for the simple reason that it was on TNN this past weekend. In it, Captain Picard becomes possessed, if you will, by an alien probe. As the crew struggles to free him of it, he lives out an entire lifetime of memories, believing he is a person on that planet. Any attempts to ´save´ him go badly; the core of the episode does not lay in the crew´s struggle to disrupt the beam and save their captain, but the life that Picard is living inside of his mind, and the alien cultures struggle to save themselves from their sun going Supernova. The Prove itself is 1,000 years old- -in the end, they obviously fail. Picard is left with the memories of living and essentially dying, as a man he never was. This is a far cry from the same plotline being told over and over again. Enterprise is too new to truly prove itself, we´ve seen some examples of the "repative plotline" that plagued Voyager, while we´ve also seem some character-centric episodes, and some morality plays. This is the biggest difference that seperates Star Trek from Star Wars. Star Wars is a Fairy Tale, while Star Trek is a morality play. Truly, Star Wars simply is a stereotypical fairy tale, and there´s nothing wrong with that. There´s the boy, the wise old man, the hero´s journey, archetypical characters fleshed out by dialog. Star Trek is an entire take on morality. For example, how many episodes suffered from the "save´s the day" storyline? A number of them, but unlike, say, Voyager, the original series did not rely on hackenyed plot conventions in order to save the ship: but the morality of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. Their humanity is what allowed them to prosper- -not their individual humanity, but as a group. Think about it. As archetypical as the characters in Star Wars go, Star Trek rivals them on a galactic scale (pun intended). This is not a bad thing, either; in each series the archetypes become characters in their own right, but the archetypes are always there. The Enterprise isn´t a ship; it is humanity itself. Kirk is courage; that is his role, the ship´s captain, humanity´s guiding force. Counceling him are the mind, and the heart. Spock represents science; as an alien who´s culture is based on pure logic, this role has been created for him. McCoy, the ship´s doctor, does not represent medicine; instead, he represents the heart, emotions. McCoy and Spock are always at odds, and for good reason; their ideals constantly conflict with each other. Again, this is only one layer of the characters and their motivations. The secondary characters: Scotty, Sulu, Chekov, Uhura; they represent similar ideals, such as wonder, love, and other devices of the sort, though all to a lesser degree(Save for perhaps Scotty, who could be argued to represent Humanity´s cheerful, but oftentimes rash behavior). If you take it in such a context, then the original Series does not simply "Save the day", but is essentially about humanity´s journey and how it overcomes the obsticals in its way using its assets and its sense of Morality. Star Trek has never truly been about "Saving the Day", but rather about humanity journeying to space while journeying into itself. As for special effects and the technological aspect...it was never Gene Roddenberry´s point to have the "gee whiz!" factor. Startlingly...his space ships didn´t even make zooming noises (as they would not in real life) until Star Wars made such a gross scientific inaccuracy a ´must-have´ of science fiction. As before, it all boils down to this; Star Wars is intended to give us a great story, and allow us to relive the epic feeling of sorts that conventional culture tends to frown upon. Not directly in contrast, Star Trek is intended to give the watcher a sense of hope. A sense of the strength that humanity can aqquire in itself and the power inherted from humanity´s sense of morality.  :( Stoneneedle 2:18am, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] *sniffs*...why´s everybody always pick on Voyager? I like Voyager...   Anonymous 2:21am, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Yes...humanties ever predictable path. If you wear a red shirt, you die. If you wear a black mask, your secretly the main characters father.  *LOL* FALCON_X-0N_ 3:07am, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] There´s always that....  Hmm.... Talon 3:08am, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Wear a red shirt you die? No worse than wearing a stormtrooper armor and dying. Star Trek has it´s action moments. As seen in the last episode of DS9 with the Dominion war...that was action packed. Star Wars is cool....but for god´s sake, how can a little boy single handed take out an entire Trade Federation!? It makes no sense! And TNG, some of DS9, TOS, and very little of VGR is good. SW, the original movies were good...the new one was...well...it was something....where the hell were half the aliens fromt he original movies? And why weren´t the aliens in the new movie not in the original movies? They added too much and have made SW not as good as it was. That Midiclorian (sp?) crap ruined the magic and mystery of the force. Blah, I´ve spoken my few cents....for now...  Go out with tonight Anonymous 3:15am, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] devon school girl shit stories uncut guys 1 http://xaijo.com/browse?gallery-JANIS http://googl.adultgalls.com/gallery-JEFFREY india power so2 la tetanic playboy video family guy theme song lyrics what is the approximate length of a chick egg coed loves to eat wife and suck husband manga hot sex boobsville sex academy megaupload heather carolin fucking chinese bitches xxx free naked psp themes http://adultgalls.com/?sexy-HEATHER http://adultgalls.com/?sexy-MICHAEL Edited 5:42am, November 08, 2012 by Anonymous, author.  Wtf? JekNado 7:33pm, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] I bet the designer that decided the Trade federation´s Shiled generator should go in the docking bay got his ass reamed.....  FFS Stoneneedle 9:36pm, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] FFS, there´s the Voyager bashing again. Voyager was crafted in the true spirit of Star Trek. Exploration is a heck of a lot more dangerous and suspenseful if there´s no Federation armada a couple of light years away to back you up if there´s trouble. Yes, DS9 and TNG were great, but Voyager was stranded on the other side of the galaxy to make its way home. And that´s way farther than any other Federation ship has traveled (save for when the Q/Borg get involved to my knowledge) with no wormholes or other stellar bodies to get them back home. I´m rambling now, but the point is that Voyager is good stuff.  Binks Buzz 9:46pm, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Hell, I wish George Lucas had gotten assreamed for coming up with Jar Jar Binks, I respect the guy-but few things make me want to rip my ears off more than that creatures speech...  on Voyager... FALCON_X-0N_ 10:20pm, April 19, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] The thing is, while it had that kind of meaning to it, it really was faulty in its execution. I always took it as if Star Trek was Roddenberry´s Wagon Train to the Stars, then Voyager was B&B´s Cash Cow to financial security. But Voyager had a lot of great moments: one thing that surprised the hell out of me was that they made Seven into a character, rather than just "look! Talking Boobs!" A lot of Voyager episodes, in my opinion came off come of stale. But a lot of that was the whole feeling on "Anti-Continuety" that they had. But the series was made to be entirely episodic, so that was done purposefully, in order to be more like the original Trek. I don´t know...I guess I just didn´t like Janeway. For someone so stuck up about her Starfleet Principles, she only gave the borg the weapon to destroy an entire species. Or maybe that´s just my bias because she secretly hated Harry Kim...she only let him go 7 years without promoting him. and he was a member of the senior staff!  Voyager was in the spirit? Talon 1:46am, April 20, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] I find that to be laughable. Yes, in TNG they had Starfleet to back up the Enterprise, but, that didn´t help when they fought the Borg. They were basically unstoppable in TNG, in Voyager? That ship is much smaller than the Galaxy Class ship, and no where near as heavily armed. And yet, they kick the Borg´s ass every few episodes.  Indeed J The Voice Of Reason 5:26am, April 20, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] By God that´s so true. I mean according to Data in "Datalore" supposedly the average amount of years a Starfleet officer stays as an Ensign is three years (saying this to Lore when his bro asked how he could get a uniform like his) But hell maybe he deserved to never be promoted, after all it was Harry Kim´s brainiac idea that almost (and actually did) get Voyager trapped under a planet frozen in ice.  Re: Kim FALCON_X-0N_ 5:33am, April 20, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Like I said, I think that VOY tried to have the spirit of Star Trek (TOS), but carried it out in the spirit of Ratings. As for the Harry Kim deserving it idea: Nah. Look at Worf. Hell, last season of TNG, "Parallels" he flies through a quantum rupture and damn near destroys all of reality as we know it. One year later, he gets promoted to Lt.Commander. I bet Kim just put the shuttle down on Janeway´s foot once, or something.  Star Trek all the way. Andy 10:27am, April 20, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Well, I like Star Wars, but I would be edged to stick with Star Trek, because of watched it forever. Cardassians and the Borg kick ass. = p  Ha... Justin Sane 4:18pm, April 20, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Star Wars > Star Trek  Star Trek vs. Star Wars. Byte Storm 9:22pm, May 09, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] I agree that it is a very good article but it just shows that peramount doesnt want to waist money. If they can do it cheaper with lucas arts, they will. In the end I still think Zoids is the best out of the two. and then maybe star trek. Star wars is ok, but they have really, really crapy graphics. Ive spent my whole life working with computers, graphics and video and star wars just isnt very realistic. -Byte Storm  The Truth Comes out... Marc Harding 11:43pm, May 09, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Well I posted the original. It dosen´t matter that I stay quiet anymore, though there was a reason for it. Some of you no doubt noted my argumentative nature and orenry spirit in the writing. -Harding  Um.. Rob 2:45am, May 10, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] I agree that it is a very good article but it just shows that peramount doesnt want to waist money. If they can do it cheaper with lucas arts, they will. In the end I still think Zoids is the best out of the two. and then maybe star trek. Star wars is ok, but they have really, really crapy graphics. Ive spent my whole life working with computers, graphics and video and star wars just isnt very realistic. -Byte Storm Are you Stoned? Edited 4:45am, May 10 by Rob, author.  Hm.... Syphon-X 1:47am, May 11, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] After reviewing this article and is many contents I´ve come up with the conclusion that: 1.Zoids is crap compared to SW or ST(a federation shuttle could take out on of those pieces of robotic crap) 2.Byte- has taken too many drugs 3. The ST vs. SW is like comparing Men to Women 4.That SW and ST are like two different universe 5.Byte- has taken too many drugs 6.Byte- has taken too many drugs 7.Byte- has taken too many drugs 8.Byte- has taken too many drugs 9.Byte- has taken too many drugs 10.Byte- has taken too many drugs 11.Byte- has taken too many drugs 12.Byte- has taken too many drugs 13.Byte- has taken too many drugs 14.Byte- has taken too many drugs 15.Byte- has taken too many drugs  Voyager was a great. Andy 6:10pm, August 07, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Yes, some people dislike ST Voyager for many reasons. Stronger than the Borg, could win every plight, pillage and attacks they´ve gotten into and etc. But you must realise; the reason why Voyager could beat a Borg ship time to time is because 7 of 9 was a Borg and knew the technology of the Borg. Advantage Voyager. Katherine Janeway, I like her as a Captain because her enthusiasm, morals and honor kept the crew with her and not against her. On occassion she made some mistakes but all Captains do, Picard did it also. Need an example, he confronted the Borg on his own and did not wait for help. Reason why Harry Kim did not get promoted is because Janeway did not feel that deserved a promotion. Harry did many errors during Voyagers long journey and one was losing the trust of the Captain. One Main reason why Voyager persisted and advanced on there journey was through will power and to get home (meaning Earth) main goal to reach. Yes they were bapped with viruses, diseases, borg encounters and other alien encounters and got through them yes, but the only reason they did this was to survey and know what the Delta quadrant is like. ST Voyager was basically a survival and quest series. That is why I like ST Voyager. Favorite Characters: Janeway, Chicothay, Seven, The Doctor and Tuvok. Character´s I hate: Belona, Harry Kim and Neelix Order of ST Shows I like from Best to Least Liked. 1) ST TNG 2) ST Voyager 3) ST DS9 4) Enterprise 5) Star Trek Favorite Movies: ST First Contact, ST Insurrection, ST Wrath of Khan. = ] My feedback Edited 1:11pm, August 07 by Andy, author.  A vote for voyager Rinn 7:03am, August 09, 2002 [Edit] [Delete] Yes...Voyager was good. Tis a shame that it´s gone for good now only to be seen on some long lost TV station in reruns. And I can´t remember everything that has been argued against ST but I remember someone saying that SW has a long running underlying plot...well Voyager had that too! I mean they were a long way from home stuck on the other side of the glaxay and their main goal was to reach home. Then on top of that goal or problem were the episode problems that needed to be solved. And come on..the characters were great. Seven of Nine, Tom Parris, the doc and all the others. And they were able to beat the borg because it was one person controlling many, hence the hive. Voyager was full of individual thinking beings and was therefore able to bash the cube and sphere and such. Plus they aquired Seven of Nine after awhile and were able to know the inner workings of the Borg. Index | New Thread | Reply | Close | Stick | Delete