Thread for An Itch Index | New Thread | Reply | Close | Stick | Delete  An Itch Jezral 11:44pm, January 07, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] I have an itch for starting a discussion, and I propose a topic that I got rekindled yesterday. This essay: Do You Believe What I Believe, and the following email exchange. So read it, and then verbally rip off eachother's heads in a good discussion... -- Tino Didriksen / Project JJ  Interesting AceOOC 4:46am, January 08, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] See, this is the exact reason why I consider myself a non-denominational Christian. I can't stand the way that different members of different religions argue and fight with one another, because really, the base of almost all religions in the world is love. "I love my neighbor, therefore I will shoot him because he is an infidel!" Nuh-uh, doesnt work. Unconditional love (Agape, in greek) means to love one another without restrictions. This is hard to do. Actually its impossible for a mortal to unconditionally love everyone all the time. But that doesnt mean that we can't try. Anyways, there's my two cents. Agape, Ace  Religion and Technology. Andy 5:29am, January 08, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] This Superior being can not be comprehended by the mind for our minds are weak. People of Love and Holiness have seen this power of 'God' through his energies. Yes, these are facts given by Historians and holy Scripture. God: Has many names, which are only characteristics of a superior being. and God is not in time, he is Eternal. He does not Exist, but He is. We cannot limit him to our human mind. God out there? Possible or maybe not. It is up to the persons heart and soul. There are many holy peoples: Prophets of the Old Book: The Bible. Seekers of Truth, and a knowledge of a better life. Jesus Christ bringer of Love and Peace. (My opinion: Son of God, one person of the holy Trinity) Mohammed: A person who desired to free Meccans from idolatry and create a now Super religion. Gandhi: A very Holy figure who has his own path in life. The world does not have to be Christian so people can find there path to salvation, good, holiness. Everyone has there own opinion. Plus, you cannot judge religion when science and technology has its faults. I.E. Atomic Warfare. Polution. All these were created by men, in order to hurt other men. (General sense women included) Humanity creates his own destiny either good or evil. Science and Religion should work together to create a better world for us. Thanks for the time.  It's a pretty picture, but not logical. Brother Cain 10:21am, January 08, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] Maybe there is a god, but chances are probably not. I see religion as a way for people back in the day to set rules; rules that could not be questioned or denied. Another reason God was invented was to help people cope with horrible events and the inevitable death. No one wants to believe that this life is all there is. It's a sad, sad truth, but the most believable to me. What got me about the little essay was the part where he talked about people excluding themselves from others that don't believe in the same invisible, make believe deity that they do. How is this any different from what most people do; God fearing or not? Everyone excludes themselves, alienates their group from others whom they deem not worthy, or just plain different. Actually there were two thing that got me about the essay. The part where the christian says that because people have kindness and a conscience, that there is proof that there is a god. Well, I haven't seen a whole lot of either of that lately. Frankly, I think God must have taken a siesta or is on a coffe break. Lastly; Stop blaming everything on another invisible man with a goatee and red pajamas. Take responsibility for your own actions. (This has nothing to do with anything, just had to throw it in there.) So in closing; No God, No afterlife, fanatics are evil, just this life, so live it. Try not to fuck this world up, get along with people, and don't start any holy wars. Amen, Bob Bless, Merry Xmas and to all a latte and oral sex.   Isamu 8:21pm, January 08, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] I've been part of several religions now, and from all of them, I've found nothing that was for me. Which I think religion should be about in the first place. My relationship with God (Or Muhammad, or whoever he (or she) may be.). Yes, I do believe there's a higher power out that. I believe that, because I've felt it, I've seen it in action. But, what I don't believe in is organized religion. I don't think you have to be part of any one religion in order to be religious. In all truth, I don't think there is one right religion, even though they all boast to be the right one. I think that as long as you have him(or her), in your heart, then there is no need for organized religion. What good is it, anyway? There's litterally thousands of different ones out there, and there's no real way to determin which is right one. And besides, they do nothing more than scream at you about how you're damned to hell if you follow all of their guidelines, which, alot times, isn't even the original ten commandments. I can't tell you whether or not God exsists, or if Jesus existed or whatever. I think he does, and I do think Jesus did in fact come and die for my sins. But, I don't think I have to sit in a building every Sunday and listen to a man preach to me about how this and that is morally wrong, and I'm gonna go to hell for doing such things. So, yeah.  Call, and the sheep will come... Buzz 11:24pm, January 09, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] People don't like to think for themselves, for the most part. Religion offers a way out of having to think of ways to justify their actions. Being religious doesn't neccessarily make someone a good person, either. I know a few christians and catholics who are complete assholes for the most part, they're the kind of people who would kick a guy in the junk for no reason, and spit in his face (Some people would argue that you don't need a reason to do that, but lets not go there...). The large majority of Atheists I know have moral codes that would make a decent part of the Religious people In my area jealous. Then again, on the same ticket, I know Athesists who are complete assholes, and Regligous people who adopt almost saint-like moral codes. My point being that people can adopt good moral codes without religion. Religion does give people something to believe in, which is a good thing if they don't have a lot going for them in their lives. Faith in God has sustained many a person through hard times. The belief that there is an ultimate being that will love you no matter how bad you are is quite a tempting idea, I'll admit. Personally, I believe there's something out there, be it God, Allah, Buddah, Aliens or whatever. I've had too many freaky occurances (good ones) happen to me, for me to just chalk it up to luck or chance (which are the same thing, now that I think about it). Religion also tends to breed intolerance. I can't count the number of times some hopelessly devout Catholic girl has told me "You're going to burn in hell if you keep living like you do!". My usual reply? "Right, I'll save you a seat on the Chutulu Express...". The holy wars....all those missionaries sent to other countries...there are undoutably countless other examples that someone better versed in history and religion could cite for you. Plenty of people kill the name of their god. That reminds me, religion is used to manipulate the masses. Just look at the middle east. I don't feel I need to go into detail about this, you all have eyes and ears. The people over there are hungry, tired, scared, poor, they'll gladly listen to a charismatic Priest. Those kind of conditions easily produce lots of willing religios zealots who will even sacrifice their lives to kill "the devils in the west", I think the phrase goes. Now, I don't love the US government in any shape or form. I think Winston Churchhill said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others". Then again, I don't condone killing. I think those sick bastards who planned the attacks on the US will get theirs in one sense or another. I've strayed from the subject, please don't start a big deabate about terrorism...(at least on this thread). Again, religion is used to controll the masses, even in other reigions than the middle east. A lot of the churches around here will have it's members ostracize you if you don't believe as they do. This goes back to the tolerancy point. Some religions have a complete layout for day to day life, saving people the need to think for themselves. Anyway, These are just a few of my thoughts. Please realize that a lot of the statements in this post were generalizations, and as such, are not applacable to everybody in the groups I was applying them to. Buzz Edited 12:45am, January 10 by Buzz, author.   AceOOC 4:28am, January 10, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] Personally, I can't fathom how someone could possibly live without faith in some form of god... I know some people do, but I don't understand how. Again, that's just me. I would disagree strongly with Buzz's statement that religion is a way to control the masses. To reduce someone's beliefs to such a level is not right, whether or not you agree with or consider their beliefs to be correct. Now I realize that those were the only comments I have to make at this time, so, having said them, I will now vanish *poof*  Religous mistakes Heq 5:13am, January 10, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] Okie, let's make some real headway beyond "Wah, death is bad, religion should be about life." No, it shouldn't. One: Andy, religion can create a better world, better worlds can be created by eliminating those who are weaker and suffer from sociological problems, thus War is good for the species. mass executions of the weak would be better, but from a species view, the ubers should want war. Two: If there is a god one can only assume it would follow the generally true universals, as there has only every been one universal that can be found in the universe which holds true for all things (including void) it is conflict, thus we should not only look at conflict as a chance for strength, but as a logical manifestation of divine will. It is not that conflict disproves god, but that we are created to suffer and war. Once that has been postulated the rest of the arguments fall away.  In other words... Jezral 1:32pm, January 10, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] So basically, Heq, what you are saying is that religion is just a new name for biology. What you describe, war to get rid of weak, is what animals have been doing for millions of years. It's called Survival of the Fittest these days. And in that light, humans (which are just large mammals) are doing the exact same thing, only on a broader scale. So there goes the theory of a god and any religious aspect out the window...by virtue of Ockham's Razor. -- Tino Didriksen / Project JJ   Isamu 11:29pm, January 10, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] First off, Heq, you made no sense what so ever, and seemed to of completely veered off the subject. And with that said. I have to agree with Buzz to a certain extent. Yes, religion can be used to control masses. The middle east being a prime example of that. But that's an extreme of the subject. Something less extreme, is, for example, the Southern Baptist. While, no, they don't use religion to convince thousands of people to go and kill other people in the name of God, they do, however, convince many a person of thinking "If you don't do exactly what I tell you, then you're damned to hell". And this is true with many US religions. It's either their way, or the highway. The highway to hell, that is. At one of the Wensday Masses, at another religion I was a part of, briefly, the preacher actually stood up in front of the entire congregation(sp?) and said that man never landed on the moon. And EVERYONE bought into it. Just going to show that religious figures, be they the Pope or even a local priest, just have a way of saying things that makes you want to follow them. Thus, controling the masses.  A little clarification Buzz 3:56am, January 11, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] I didn't intend to imply that all religion is used to control the masses...I meant to say that religion can, and is used in many places, to control the masses.   Anonymous 9:32am, January 11, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] "Religion is the opiate of the masses." Although if that's true, then society has gone straight edge.   Anonymous 3:13am, January 14, 2003 [Edit] [Delete] *scratches itch* Index | New Thread | Reply | Close | Stick | Delete